Tina Zeinlinger is a journalism student at the Georg von Holtzbrinck School and writes not only for Handelsblatt and WirtschaftsWoche. Together with her colleague Matthias Rutkowski (26), she also launched the podcast „Moneymaster – investing for career starters“ for WirtschaftsWoche – not from the all-knowing perspective of the expert, but from her own: first job after university, no practical experience with investing, and a head full of question marks. The 22-year-old Austrian talks openly and directly about what she doesn't understand, and also about what annoys her about the industry. The result is a podcast that's a pleasure to listen to, because what dominates here isn't lofty finance-speak but plain common sense. In episode 5, Tina Zeinlinger actually tested a robo-advisor. Her verdict at the time: „a pretty good performance.“ The big but – a minimum investment of €5,000 is too much. And her criticism was the decisive factor that tipped the scales, prompting us to lower our minimum investment, initially as a trial running until 10 October 2019, to €1,000. Because this young journalist makes good arguments and asks the right questions, we turned the tables for once and put the questions to her.
What I especially liked about your podcast was how honestly you talk about your own hesitation when it comes to investing. Why did you choose this honest approach?
Tina Zeinlinger: With a lot of the experts and other podcasts I'd listened to, I had the feeling right from the start that most people talk a big game without much behind it. It all felt so unapproachable to me.
Can you describe that in more detail?
Zeinlinger: I often had the feeling that these were experts who really know their stuff but can't manage to boil it down to the essentials. It's the same as at university. There are professors with an enormous amount of background knowledge, but they can't get it across in a way that makes the most important points stick.
In your view, why is the subject of finance so complex?
Zeinlinger: I don't think anyone understands the financial market as a whole 100 percent. As soon as I asked about more detailed things, all I got back were empty phrases, and at some point you probably have to accept that beyond a certain point you can't keep digging deeper – or don't need to. Because then it just gets too detailed. It really is a fairly complex subject that you should engage with. But at some point you also have to draw a line for yourself and say: „Okay, I think I've got enough points of reference now and I know I feel comfortable and can do something with this.“
You studied economics – was that a good basis for Moneymaster?
Zeinlinger: It was all very, very theory-focused. I knew how a stock works, and I also had a rough idea of what an ETF is. But that wasn't enough for me to say with confidence: „I want to pay my money into this for the next 30 or 40 years.“ It's probably not the job of an economics degree either to teach people how to invest their money.
Whose job is it, then?
Zeinlinger: I've asked myself that too. If I don't learn it at university, if it only ever comes up superficially among family and friends, and if there are otherwise no places to turn to that support you or where I feel well advised, then that's unfair.
Why do you feel that way?
Zeinlinger: Everyone should have the right to know what's going on and what they can do for themselves. That may sound like an empty phrase now, but surviving financially in this system – and being able to benefit from it, or make the best of it for yourself – shouldn't be reserved for a small group. The finance industry is just completely opaque. I also often have the feeling that people who work at a bank only know what happens right in front of their screen, or what they have to type into Bloomberg. And no more than that.
Were there any positive experiences on the expert side too?
Zeinlinger: I was quite pleasantly surprised by the consumer advice center. I'll be turning to them more often, because they have a huge range of offerings. I'd expected them to be very conservative and to try to push 100,000 insurance policies on me, but they were actually very competent.
You write and talk a lot about ETFs, and the industry advertises with the idea of democratization. Was that what drew you to the subject?
Zeinlinger: „Democratization of the financial market“ comes up a lot in connection with ETFs. The idea that everyone can have access to the capital markets and that it should all be really simple sounds like a nice approach. I wanted to see what's really behind it.
Weren't you also skeptical, though? „Democratization of the financial market“ does sound like an empty phrase too.
Zeinlinger: Exactly. For me, there was skepticism from the start about whether it wasn't just a marketing gimmick. Take „invest flexibly,“ which the industry advertises. What does flexible mean here? I wanted to know that so I could really feel confident about investing.
What's your general view of the finance industry?
Zeinlinger: I have the feeling that the finance industry is pretty much the most opaque and least transparent system we have. And that there are a great many problems that only a few people know about. I also have the feeling that a lot goes wrong there that no one looks into – or can look into – because you don't understand it. I think this construct is at least as dangerous as any political system. That's why it's important to think about what's happening there, who benefits from it, or why not everyone benefits.
Why is it so important that more people than before benefit from the finance industry, and especially career starters like you?
Zeinlinger: Because I'd landed my first proper permanent job thanks to my economics degree, and because through my work I was constantly surrounded by articles about „low interest rates“ and „your money keeps shrinking if you leave it in a savings account,“ I thought to myself: „Okay, I have to do something.“ And then there's this ongoing public debate about retirement provision and the fact that pensions are no longer secure for my generation. That worried me.
Building wealth isn't easy at the start. You yourself criticized minimum investments of €5,000. Roughly how much do career starters have to invest?
Zeinlinger: Well, among the people I know who have just finished their studies, I'd say between €80 and €250 a month. It's clear that this goes up after two or three years. But I think that's a fairly good benchmark. For me it's a bit less right now, because I'm doing a kind of traineeship. And with today's high rents, that's obviously a factor too. There isn't much room to maneuver left over.
Do career starters have a cushion after university?
Zeinlinger: I think that depends heavily on what your parents saved up for you, or what you earned yourself through side jobs. Almost everyone has between €2,000 and €5,000 in their account. It also depends on what you do with your savings after finishing school. Whether you go traveling around the world and blow it all, or not.
So a €5,000 minimum investment wouldn't have been so bad after all?
Zeinlinger: For most people, probably not. But you mustn't forget that if you have €5,000 in your account, you don't necessarily want to invest the whole amount somewhere all at once. A bit of a cushion should of course stay in your account. With €5,000, that's hard.
And €1,000 – is that better for you, or still too high?
Zeinlinger: No, €1,000 is a great thing. I mentioned it in my podcast as well. Most people are probably put off by having to put €5,000 somewhere right away. €5,000 is a barrier, even if you have the money. It's a huge sum. At least for me. When I type in €5,000 for a transfer, that feels intense to me. That's more than five lovely vacations.
How did listeners react to the podcast, and had you expected this kind of response?
Zeinlinger: At the beginning I was a bit worried I might be scoring an own goal, in case I turned out to be the only one who hardly knew anything in this area. So what pleased me most was seeing that I'm not alone – I'd basically just had the courage to say it out loud. Lots of people from different age groups reached out to me via Facebook, LinkedIn and email and wrote: „It's great that you're doing this. I feel exactly the same way.“ People in their mid-50s wrote that to me too. It was lovely to see that it struck such a chord.
And how did it feel to be the one who tipped the scales on quirion's minimum-investment reduction?
Zeinlinger: That really pleased me, because I saw that, okay, I can genuinely make a difference and I'm not just talking to myself in the podcast or doing some kind of self-therapy. Joking aside: it made me realize that people really are listening and maybe finding some help for themselves. And also that people from the finance industry are picking up on my thoughts and trying to make the world of finance more pleasant for people like me, or to make the whole financial market a bit more accessible. It's simply wonderful that within just three months – that's twelve episodes – you could already have an impact. And I'd be delighted if that keeps resonating a while longer.
Thank you very much for the conversation!
